ORIGINAL SIN
Article nine from The Anglican Thirty-nine Articles
9. Original or Birth-sin
Original sin is not found merely in the following of Adam's example (as the Pelagians foolishly say). It is rather to be seen in the fault and corruption which is found in the nature of every person who is naturally descended from Adam. The consequence of this is that man is far gone from his original state of righteousness. In his own nature he is predisposed to evil, the sinful nature in man always desiring to behave in a manner contrary to the Spirit. In every person born into this world there is fund this predisposition which rightly deserves God's anger and condemnation. This infection within man's nature persists even within those who are regenerate. This desire of the sinful nature, which in Greek is called fronema sarkos and is variously translated the wisdom or sensuality or affection or desire of the sinful nature, is not under control of God's law. Although there is no condemnation for those that believe and are baptized, nevertheless the apostle states that any such desire is sinful.
It follows the expressing that God given nature in action cannot be sinful
If homosexuality is God given, how can expressing that
sexuality consensually be sinful?
DETTERLING
Well Detterling? I'm afraid the Anglican Thirty-nine Articles, which accept Original Sin, blows your heretical theory out of the water.
Another lesson for you here: Don't tangle with Gene on Theological/Philosophical issues or on questions of Logic. Gene read Logic and Epistemology as part of the Philosophy component of his degree.
And in any case, the Article about Original Sin is invalidated by Article 20, as follows:
20. The Authority of the Church
The church has authority to decree forms of worship and ceremonies and to decide in controversies concerning the faith. However, it is not lawful for the church to order anything contrary to God's written Word. Nor may it expound one passage of Scripture so that it contradicts another passage. So, although the church is a witness and guardian to Holy Scripture, it must not decree anything contrary to Scripture, nor is it to enforce belief in anything additional to Scripture as essential to salvation.
DETTERLING
Ha! Ha! Ha! You are really floundering now Detterling. Even you don't see that as coming near or anywhere near rescuing your position.
Yesterday you were crowing that only the Catholic Church had the doctrine of Original sin. Article 9 of the Anglican Thirty-nine Articles has torpedoed that claim!
Ergo your absurd contention 'If homosexuality is God given, how can expressing that sexuality consensually be sinful?' is completely untenable. Total Pelagianism.
I said yesterday that the Catholic church had quietly let lapse the doctrine of original sin.
DETTERLING
No. The Catholic Church teaches the Doctrine of Original sin. It has never been let lapse.
The Church of England teaches the Doctrine of Original sin - as per the 39 Articles.
Detterling when one has been defeated as comprehensively as you have been, the best thing to do is make a quiet exit from the fray. Trying to rescue yourself makes you look so undignified and pitiable.
If homosexuality is God given, how can expressing that sexuality consensually be sinful?
DETTERLING
See how wrong you were?
No sodomites shall ever enter the Kingdom of God. Got that?
[1] I said yesterday that the Catholic church had quietly let lapse the doctrine of original sin lapse quietly
DETTERLING
No. The Catholic Church has not let lapse the Doctrine of Original sin.
[2] And the C of E's proclamation of original sin as an article of faith is negated by article 20
DETTERLING
So why do the 39 Articles still contain Article 9?
Detterling you have been destroyed. You have no credibility left in this discussion. And you know it.
If homosexuality is God given, how can expressing that sexuality consensually be sinful?
DETTERLING
It is quite astonishing, even allowing for your impaired intellectual condition, that you could come out with a statement like this.
Gene, don't patronise me, you pompous pillock.
ReplyDelete"Don't tangle with Gene on Theological/Philosophical issues or on questions of Logic."
In that case, why can you neither
[a] answer the simple question I posed you about Galatians 3:28 or
[b] identify the essential flaw in the question - which is that it is based on the simplest possible and most glaringly obvious category error - which you completely failed to spot, you pompous pillock. [And don't come the "I was waiting for you to spot it" or "I spotted it but didn't point it out of sympathy for your failing intellect" ploy. The fact is that, without a reliable source to plagiarise, you know the square root of fuck all about logic, theology or philosophy. If you did, you wouldn't have used the "appeal to authority" fallacy re The Thirty Nine Articles without interrogating their provenance, subtext and didactic purposes.
And in any case, the Article about Original Sin is invalidated by Article 20, as follows:
20. The Authority of the Church
!The church has authority to decree forms of worship and ceremonies and to decide in controversies concerning the faith. However, it is not lawful for the church to order anything contrary to God's written Word. Nor may it expound onepassage of Scripture so that it contradicts another passage. So, although the church is a witness and guardian to Holy Scripture, it must not decree anything contrary to Scripture, nor is it to enforce belief in anything additional to Scripture as essential to salvation.
"Original sin" - given that there are only two proof texts in Scripture for it, in Genesis and Acts, neither of which have the authority of Jesus Christ - is definitely "additional to scripture", having been added to Catholic doctrine half a millenium AD.
Do us a favour, Gene, and stop talking crap.
"The Roman Catholic Church believes that using contraception is "intrinsically evil" in itself, regardless of the consequences. Catholics are only permitted to use natural methods of birth control."
ReplyDelete"Intrinsically evil" - not much room for your inept casuistry there, I would have thought, Gene.
Once again, your silence about your heretical behaviour in this regard is thunderous....
Ah, Gene, your total divorce from reality is leading you to misread plain English.
ReplyDelete[1] I said yesterday that the Catholic church had quietly let lapse the doctrine of original sin lapse quietly and literally into limbo, when the notion of un-baptised souls - ie souls not cleansed of original sin - having to spend eternity in limbo, and thus deprived of eternal happiness - a doctrine as fatuous as it was cruel. Your paedophile-nurtuting idol Joseph Ratzinger pronounced this change in doctrine n 2007. His claim that this did not affect the notion of original sin was not cruel - or rather, amounts to a claim that all souls need to be cleansed of original sin except those who don't. Absolutely barmy.
[2] And the C of E's proclamation of original sin as an article of faith is negated by article 20, which states that "although the church is a witness and guardian to Holy Scripture, it must not decree anything contrary to Scripture, nor is it to enforce belief in anything additional to Scripture as essential to salvation."
"NOR IS IT TO ENFORCE BELIEF IN ANYTHING ADDITIONAL TO SCRIPTURE AS ESSENTIAL TO SALVATION."
Given that the doctrine of original appeared 500 years after the death of Christ, given that neither of the "proof texts" in the Bible are from the teachings of Jesus Christ, belief in original sin is, according to the 39 Articles, ADDITIONAL TO SCRIPTURE.
Which means that the Church of England cannot ENFORCE BELIEF in original sin - ie, that belief in original sin for Anglicans is, effectively, optional. Watertight logic, unlike your casuistical nonsense.
"Don't tangle with Gene on Theological/Philosophical issues or on questions of Logic" my foot - no wonder you had to cheat your way to a 2:1 - you are as dim as a Toc H lamp.
And talking of Catholic doctrine, how about this, Gene?
"The Roman Catholic Church believes that using contraception is "intrinsically evil" in itself, regardless of the consequences. Catholics are only permitted to use natural methods of birth control."
Any thoughts?
No, thought not, you hypocritical bastard.
Oh, by the way: when is Granny Barkes shat herself in The Good Yarn" coming out?
Three more terrible fails for Gene Vincent, the Gavin WIlliamson of theology.
"Detterling when one has been defeated as comprehensively as you have been, the best thing to do is make a quiet exit from the fray. Trying to rescue yourself makes you look so undignified and pitiable."
ReplyDeleteNo, Gene.
You are replying - selectively, so as to be able to burke the points I make which destroy your feeble casuistry - to what I say by expanding your original posts. This enables you to
[a] misrepresent what I have said and
[b] misdirect attention from my total refutation of your arguments.
As ever, when you have been comprehensively routed, you are trying to rig the contest. And, as ever, you will fail.
And talking of Catholic doctrine, how about this, Gene?
ReplyDelete"The Roman Catholic Church believes that using contraception is "intrinsically evil" in itself, regardless of the consequences. Catholics are only permitted to use natural methods of birth control."
Any thoughts?
No, thought not, you hypocritical bastard.
Oh, by the way: when is Granny Barkes shat herself in The Good Yarn" coming out?
Five more terrible fails for Gene Vincent, the Boris Johnson of theology.
You need to take one point on board, Gene.
ReplyDeleteYou represent everything that is loathsome, despicable, two-faced and hypocritical about religious belief.
I will continue to refute your filthy bigotry as long as I have the strength to do so.
And talking of Catholic doctrine, how about this, Gene?
"The Roman Catholic Church believes that using contraception is "intrinsically evil" in itself, regardless of the consequences. Catholics are only permitted to use natural methods of birth control."
Any thoughts?
No, thought not, you hypocritical bastard.
Oh, by the way: when is Granny Barkes shat herself in The Good Yarn" coming out?
SIX more terrible fails for Gene Vincent, the Boris Johnson of theology.
More dishonesty and inept attempts to rig a contest you have already lost, Gene, by selecting the points I make but not the evidence I use to support them. Typical Gene - a cheat and a liar to his toenails.
ReplyDeleteAs for why the 39 Articles still exist, that is an open question. They have never been enforced as doctrine, because Anglicans are encouraged to think for themselves, whereas the Catholic Church is terrified of its followers doing so. And, given your simple minded bigotry I can see why. You’d be burning witches and stoning homosexuals if you had your way.
On the other hand, you do think for yourself when it suits you, don’t you Gene? such as when it comes to your refusal to accept Catholic doctrine on artificial contraception. Dazzling hypocrisy from a lying bastard.