Wednesday 10 April 2024

 

How paedophiles infiltrated the left and hijacked the fight for civil rights


This article is from the Guardian. But, as is seen, even the Guardian struggles to exculpate the pinko/liberal Left in this matter.

Gene
This article is more than 10 years old
A 1970s campaign to lower the age of consent has returned to haunt Harriet Harman, Patricia Hewitt and Jack Dromey. But in such a liberal climate, it wasn't hard for a small, determined group to exploit a commitment to free speech

They were members of a rounders league that played in a park in Gospel Oak, north London, in the 1970s. Drawn from organisations such as Shelter, the Child Poverty Action Group, the National Council for One Parent Families, the Legal Action Group and the National Council for Civil Liberties (NCCL), they played together, socialised together and planned a better world together. After the matches they would retire to a pub for beer-fuelled debates on such cerebral topics as the limits of freedom and morality.

Some members of the rounders teams, notably Harriet Harman, her husband, Jack Dromey, and the former health secretary Patricia Hewitt, all NCCL stalwarts, would go on to great things in the Labour party. Others became heads of charities, eminent judges or gained seats on the boards of arts trusts and FTSE companies. It was a fertile time for those on the left. Many of the friendships, alliances and ideas forged then carry on today.

But how did the Paedophile Information Exchange (PIE), whose affiliation to the NCCL has been exhaustively investigated by the Daily Mail, come to get a ticket to the party?

"It was an extraordinarily liberal period," said Harry Fletcher, a criminal justice expert who at the time was the senior social worker for the National Council for One Parent Families. "The abortion laws had come in and capital punishment had been abolished." People were pushing at every boundary – sexual, moral, legal. Fletcher recalled how the groups would spend hours debating whether the NCCL, which became the campaign group Liberty, should defend the right of someone with racist or homophobic views to express themselves. The discussion about defending the National Front's right to march went on for months.

But by far the most divisive topic centred on the lowering of the age of consent. Many on the left thought that criminalising sexual behaviour between consenting teenagers was misguided and wanted it lowered to 14, a proposal endorsed by the NCCL's executive committee. Others, like Fletcher, felt such a move would give a licence to older men to prey on young girls. Into this permissive climate crept the PIE, a group that actively promoted sex between children and adults and that was allowed not only to affiliate to the NCCL (in return for paying a £15 subscription) but enjoyed considerable recognition and support for its right to speak out on such issues.

The group inveigled itself so successfully into the NCCL that, as reported in the May 1978 edition of its magazine MagPIE, the council's annual meeting passed a motion in support of PIE's rights. Motion 39 stated: "This AGM reaffirms the right of free discussion and freedom to hold meetings for all organisations and individuals doing so within the law. Accordingly, whilst reaffirming the NCCL policy on the age of consent and the rights of children; particularly the need to protect those of prepubertal age, this AGM condemns the physical and other attacks on those who have discussed or attempted to discuss paedophilia, and reaffirms the NCCL's condemnation of harassment and unlawful attacks on such persons."

That motion was passed two years after Harman has claimed that the group no longer wielded influence in the NCCL. "They had been pushed to the margins before I actually went to NCCL and to allege that I was involved in collusion with paedophilia or apologising for paedophilia is quite wrong and is a smear," she told the BBC last week. She said her husband had successfully fought to stop PIE having any influence in the NCCL in 1976 – two years before she joined as its legal officer.

Admittedly, any group could join the NCCL, which had more than 1,000 affiliate member organisations and the council's motion probably owed more to defending the principle of free speech than defending PIE. And it would be wrong to portray PIE as a major force. Being small, comprising only a handful of activists and with a membership estimated to be between 300 and 1,000, PIE was not a powerful voice at a time when the main debates within the council were about sexual equality and race relations. But its views were so profoundly abhorrent to most of Britain that it is still hard to see why the council did not do more to disown PIE from the start.

Fletcher said such views might seem extraordinary now but they were a product of their time. "Back then a lot of people [on the left] felt they had to be ultra-tolerant to small groups and take them seriously," he said.

Nevertheless, newspaper cuttings from the late 70s and early 80s, before PIE was kicked out of the NCCL, show many people were disturbed by its activities. One headmaster, Charles Oxley, was so incensed by its existence that he infiltrated it and fed intelligence back to the police. The Tory MP Geoffrey Dickens regularly attacked PIE in parliament.

In September 1983 the home secretary, Leon Brittan, described PIE's views as "utterly repugnant". And yet the same day that Brittan condemned PIE, the NCCL's legal secretary, Marie Staunton, was forced to offer a more qualified view, hamstrung by the fact that the paedophile group was still affiliated to her organisation. "Unless something is unlawful, people should not be prosecuted for the opinions they hold," she told the Daily Mail. "The NCCL is campaigning to change the law to lower the age of consent to 14. An affiliate group like the Paedophile Information Exchange would agree with our policy. That does not mean it's a mutual thing and we have to agree with theirs. The question is not whether this group seeks respectability. Their opinions are their own."

PIE was supremely adept at exploiting such ambiguity, turning such views into endorsements, part of a wider strategy that sought to misappropriate the views of other credible organisations. The Albany Trust, a government-backed counselling organisation that promoted sexual health, found its translation of a Dutch academic report examining the age of consent for homosexuals seized on by PIE as evidence that the age of consent should be lowered.

The respected mental health charity Mind, which organised a workshop examining sexuality that included interviews with a paedophile, a transvestite, a gay man, a lesbian and a transsexual, found itself accused of playing to PIE's agenda after a report about the meeting somehow found its way into the wider public domain.

Staunton told the Observer: "PIE was a vile and devious organisation which was disaffiliated from NCCL in 1983, the year I joined. I did not defend PIE and made it clear that PIE's opinions were their own and they were not opinions that were shared by NCCL. I am sorry if anything I ever said may have sounded as though I was defending PIE – nothing could be further from my intent."

But anything that got people talking about PIE was considered a victory by those within the group. As Keith Hose, its first chairman, wrote in its 1976 annual report: "The only way for PIE to survive was to seek out as much publicity for the organisation as possible … If we got bad publicity we would not run into a corner but stand and fight. We felt that the only way to get more paedophiles joining PIE … was to seek out and try to get all kinds of publications to print our organisation's name and address and to make paedophilia a real public issue."

This philosophy guided the organisation down the years with its subsequent chairman, Tom O'Carroll, gaining significant publicity for the group after being invited, and then barred, from addressing students at several universities, including Swansea, Liverpool and Oxford.

By 1978 PIE felt so confident that its views were gaining backing that it sent every member of the House of Commons and many in the Lords a copy of its booklet Paedophilia – Some Questions and Answers. Almost 200 newspapers and magazines received a press release promoting the event. "They were pretty clever people," recalls one person who came across them at the time. "They were basically the political wing of paedophilia. They were quite intellectual and very plausible."

One anecdote perhaps illustrates how plausible they were. Oxley was shocked to discover that one of PIE's key members, Steven Smith, worked for the Home Office in its security and maintenance staff. Smith, it transpired, used his work phone to organise PIE events and Home Office notepaper for the organisation's correspondence.

This may sound astonishing now, but, at the time, it would not have come as a surprise to his employers – Smith declared his membership of PIE when he was security vetted.

33 comments:

  1. Gene can I congratulate you on publishing these articles. Truly shocking.

    And to think that the Pinko/Liberal Lefties - of Detterling ilk - are now condemning the Catholic Church for its failings in this area. What nauseating hypocrisy!

    Mary Winterbourne

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Stop talking crap, Gene. It would be hypocrisy only had I supported the PIE and advocated its membership of the NCCL. I didn't, and you had better not suggest that I did.
      And lest we forget...

      Had Ratzinger unfrocked Kiesle in 1985, the abuse of children at St Joseph's would not have continued for a further three years. That is a FACT, no matter how often you try to deny it.

      Ratzinger's apology in full reads as follows [my footnotes}:

      “I can only express to all the victims [1] of sexual abuse my profound shame, my deep sorrow and my heartfelt request for forgiveness. I have had great responsibilities [2] in the Catholic Church. All the greater is my pain for the abuses [3] and the errors [4] hat occurred in those different places [5] during the time of my mandate."[6]

      1 ALL THE VICTIMS, Gene: victimS, plural: you can tell this by the S on the end of the word. All the victims of sexual abuse that occurred during Ratzingers time as Archbishop of Munich [1977- 1982] and later head of the Congregation of the Faith and Pope - that is, 1985 - 2013. The phrase "ALL THE VICTIMS therefore must include the victims of Stephen Kiesle between the years 1985-1988, when Ratzinger failed to unfrock Kiesle. [2] I HAVE HAD GREAT RESPONSIBILITES [see 1 above]: and one of those was to detect, root out and expel priests and others in the Catholic Church whose favourite hobby was buggering small boys and raping little girls. These GREAT RESPONSIBILITIES obviously include those children abused by Stephen Kiesle after Ratzinger failed to unfrock him in 1985. [3] THE ABUSES - these must include the abuses committed by Stephen Kiesle after Ratzinger failed to unfrock him [unless you can prove differently, Gene?].
      [4] THE ERRORS - these must include Ratzinger's failure to unfrock Kiesle in 1985 and probably his failure to alert Fr Thomas Ryan that he was allowing a convicted paedophile rapist to minister to the young people in his church.
      [5] THOSE DIFFERENT PLACES - except, of course at St Joseph's Church, Penole, CA, where Stephen Kiesle, still a priest, continued to abuse children during the years 1985-1988 - Ratzinger made it clear that his apology did not include this, didn't he, Gene, and you can prove that, can't you? What's that? oh, you can't? Dear me, and YOU call ME a lying tosser... [5] DURING MY MANDATE: that is, during the years 1985 - 2013.

      It is clear to anyone whose mind has a greater ratiocinatory capacity than a pair of skid-marked underpants that Ratzinger was apologising for all the sexual abuse committed on his watch 1985-2013 by priests whom he failed either properly to oversee, accurately to diagnose and condignly to punish, as well as arranging for their being unable to access children and young people ever again.

      "I can only express to ALL the victims of sexual abuse my profound shame, my deep sorrow and my heartfelt request for forgiveness." It's that word ALL that gives it away, Gene: I'm sorry if it's confusing. Stuff your pissy little opinions up your arse. I will not apologise for telling the truth, and I will go on telling it until you acknowledge that it is the truth. In the meantime, I continue to wait for your answer to this:

      "Detters can we leave A.N. WILSON and ARIANNA HUFFINGTON behind?"

      Not until you have dealt honestly with this example of your lying bastardy:

      'Gene writes beautifully - something not always the case with authors of trail-blazing literary works.' [A.N. WILSON]

      "The genius of James Joyce is alive and well and living amongst us. His name is Gene Vincent." [A.N. WILSON]

      'I was enthralled. A new star has shot into the literary firmament. [ARIANNA HUFFINGTON]

      When you are going to admit that you have made these reviews and their authors up? Make no mistake: I am going to keep on asking until you tell the truth, or I lose patience, inform Mr Wilson and Ms Huffington and let nature take its course.

      Delete
  2. My God Gene you have nailed them! Such disgusting hypocrisy from the pinko/liberal Left. Attacking the Catholic for its failures while they were actively encouraging paedophilia.

    Methinks exit Detterling from this blog with his tail between his legs.

    Tony of the Big Saloon

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Are you accusing me of encouraging paedophilia, Gene. It would better for you if you made it crystal clear that you are not. In the meantime:

      Had Ratzinger unfrocked Kiesle in 1985, the abuse of children at St Joseph's would not have continued for a further three years. That is a FACT, no matter how often you try to deny it.

      Ratzinger's apology in full reads as follows [my footnotes}:

      “I can only express to all the victims [1] of sexual abuse my profound shame, my deep sorrow and my heartfelt request for forgiveness. I have had great responsibilities [2] in the Catholic Church. All the greater is my pain for the abuses [3] and the errors [4] hat occurred in those different places [5] during the time of my mandate."[6]

      1 ALL THE VICTIMS, Gene: victimS, plural: you can tell this by the S on the end of the word. All the victims of sexual abuse that occurred during Ratzingers time as Archbishop of Munich [1977- 1982] and later head of the Congregation of the Faith and Pope - that is, 1985 - 2013. The phrase "ALL THE VICTIMS therefore must include the victims of Stephen Kiesle between the years 1985-1988, when Ratzinger failed to unfrock Kiesle. [2] I HAVE HAD GREAT RESPONSIBILITES [see 1 above]: and one of those was to detect, root out and expel priests and others in the Catholic Church whose favourite hobby was buggering small boys and raping little girls. These GREAT RESPONSIBILITIES obviously include those children abused by Stephen Kiesle after Ratzinger failed to unfrock him in 1985. [3] THE ABUSES - these must include the abuses committed by Stephen Kiesle after Ratzinger failed to unfrock him [unless you can prove differently, Gene?].
      [4] THE ERRORS - these must include Ratzinger's failure to unfrock Kiesle in 1985 and probably his failure to alert Fr Thomas Ryan that he was allowing a convicted paedophile rapist to minister to the young people in his church.
      [5] THOSE DIFFERENT PLACES - except, of course at St Joseph's Church, Penole, CA, where Stephen Kiesle, still a priest, continued to abuse children during the years 1985-1988 - Ratzinger made it clear that his apology did not include this, didn't he, Gene, and you can prove that, can't you? What's that? oh, you can't? Dear me, and YOU call ME a lying tosser... [5] DURING MY MANDATE: that is, during the years 1985 - 2013.

      It is clear to anyone whose mind has a greater ratiocinatory capacity than a pair of skid-marked underpants that Ratzinger was apologising for all the sexual abuse committed on his watch 1985-2013 by priests whom he failed either properly to oversee, accurately to diagnose and condignly to punish, as well as arranging for their being unable to access children and young people ever again.

      "I can only express to ALL the victims of sexual abuse my profound shame, my deep sorrow and my heartfelt request for forgiveness." It's that word ALL that gives it away, Gene: I'm sorry if it's confusing. Stuff your pissy little opinions up your arse. I will not apologise for telling the truth, and I will go on telling it until you acknowledge that it is the truth. In the meantime, I continue to wait for your answer to this:

      "Detters can we leave A.N. WILSON and ARIANNA HUFFINGTON behind?"

      Not until you have dealt honestly with this example of your lying bastardy:

      'Gene writes beautifully - something not always the case with authors of trail-blazing literary works.' [A.N. WILSON]

      "The genius of James Joyce is alive and well and living amongst us. His name is Gene Vincent." [A.N. WILSON]

      'I was enthralled. A new star has shot into the literary firmament. [ARIANNA HUFFINGTON]

      When you are going to admit that you have made these reviews and their authors up? Make no mistake: I am going to keep on asking until you tell the truth, or I lose patience, inform Mr Wilson and Ms Huffington and let nature take its course.

      Delete
  3. My God! After all this about your fellow-travellers, the pinko/liberal Left supporting the PIE you have the cheek to publish discredited rubbish about Cardinal Ratzinger - falsehoods only you and Dawkins credit.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Desperate stuff this, Gene, trying to smear me by claiming that I support paedophilia - dishonest and nasty as usual, as well as completely untrue.

    And you know perfectly well that the FACTS about Ratzinger’s excusing, ignoring, concealing and abetting paedophile priests in their abuse during the years 1985 - 2013 have been established and are incontrovertible. Why else would he have apologised in such a heartfelt manner for his criminal incompetence?

    Dishonest, sleazy, two faced and dim witted - a typical Gene Vincent performance in fact. It would be funny were it not so contemptible.

    ReplyDelete
  5. "Are you accusing me of encouraging paedophilia, Gene. It would better for you if you made it crystal clear that you are not..."

    I am certainly accusing the pinko/liberal Left of encouraging paedophilia. How could I not? The evidence is incontrovertible.

    Now whether you are included here Detters ... well let's see. You were and are a pinko/liberal Leftie. And you have a track record of having oddball views. Remember how you once claimed that we do not know how Jesus would have viewed the vile sin of sodomy?

    Do you have any documentary evidence that you can submit on here that you actively opposed the pinko/liberal Left's endorsement of the PIE?

    Over to you Detters. The ball is in your court.

    Best wishes,

    GENE

    ReplyDelete
  6. "Are you accusing me of encouraging paedophilia, Gene. It would better for you if you made it crystal clear that you are not..."

    You are making an accusation by implication that I have encouraged, or do encourage, paedophilia.

    "Do you have any documentary evidence that you can submit on here that you actively opposed the pinko/liberal Left's endorsement of the PIE? Over to you Detters. The ball is in your court."

    Come off it. It is up to you to prove that accusation, not for me to disprove it. The "when did you stop beating your wife" cheap trick won't wash with me. And to think you claim to have taught A level law.

    I repeat: ""Are you accusing me of encouraging paedophilia, Gene."

    It would better for you if you made your answer crystal clear by answering, without qualification either "yes" or "no".

    ReplyDelete
  7. Had Ratzinger unfrocked Kiesle in 1985, the abuse of children at St Joseph's would not have continued for a further three years. That is a FACT, no matter how often you try to deny it.

    Ratzinger's apology in full reads as follows [my footnotes}:

    “I can only express to all the victims [1] of sexual abuse my profound shame, my deep sorrow and my heartfelt request for forgiveness. I have had great responsibilities [2] in the Catholic Church. All the greater is my pain for the abuses [3] and the errors [4] hat occurred in those different places [5] during the time of my mandate."[6]

    1 ALL THE VICTIMS, Gene: victimS, plural: you can tell this by the S on the end of the word. All the victims of sexual abuse that occurred during Ratzingers time as Archbishop of Munich [1977- 1982] and later head of the Congregation of the Faith and Pope - that is, 1985 - 2013. The phrase "ALL THE VICTIMS therefore must include the victims of Stephen Kiesle between the years 1985-1988, when Ratzinger failed to unfrock Kiesle. [2] I HAVE HAD GREAT RESPONSIBILITES [see 1 above]: and one of those was to detect, root out and expel priests and others in the Catholic Church whose favourite hobby was buggering small boys and raping little girls. These GREAT RESPONSIBILITIES obviously include those children abused by Stephen Kiesle after Ratzinger failed to unfrock him in 1985. [3] THE ABUSES - these must include the abuses committed by Stephen Kiesle after Ratzinger failed to unfrock him [unless you can prove differently, Gene?].
    [4] THE ERRORS - these must include Ratzinger's failure to unfrock Kiesle in 1985 and probably his failure to alert Fr Thomas Ryan that he was allowing a convicted paedophile rapist to minister to the young people in his church.
    [5] THOSE DIFFERENT PLACES - except, of course at St Joseph's Church, Penole, CA, where Stephen Kiesle, still a priest, continued to abuse children during the years 1985-1988 - Ratzinger made it clear that his apology did not include this, didn't he, Gene, and you can prove that, can't you? What's that? oh, you can't? Dear me, and YOU call ME a lying tosser... [5] DURING MY MANDATE: that is, during the years 1985 - 2013.

    It is clear to anyone whose mind has a greater ratiocinatory capacity than a pair of skid-marked underpants that Ratzinger was apologising for all the sexual abuse committed on his watch 1985-2013 by priests whom he failed either properly to oversee, accurately to diagnose and condignly to punish, as well as arranging for their being unable to access children and young people ever again.

    "I can only express to ALL the victims of sexual abuse my profound shame, my deep sorrow and my heartfelt request for forgiveness." It's that word ALL that gives it away, Gene: I'm sorry if it's confusing. Stuff your pissy little opinions up your arse. I will not apologise for telling the truth, and I will go on telling it until you acknowledge that it is the truth. In the meantime, I continue to wait for your answer to this:

    "Detters can we leave A.N. WILSON and ARIANNA HUFFINGTON behind?"

    Not until you have dealt honestly with this example of your lying bastardy:

    'Gene writes beautifully - something not always the case with authors of trail-blazing literary works.' [A.N. WILSON]

    "The genius of James Joyce is alive and well and living amongst us. His name is Gene Vincent." [A.N. WILSON]

    'I was enthralled. A new star has shot into the literary firmament. [ARIANNA HUFFINGTON]

    When you are going to admit that you have made these reviews and their authors up? Make no mistake: I am going to keep on asking until you tell the truth, or I lose patience, inform Mr Wilson and Ms Huffington and let nature take its course.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Gene, three straight questions for you.

    Kindly eschew the weaselly evasiveness of a lifetime, and oblige me with three straight answers.

    Are you accusing me of having supported the Paedophile Information Exchange?

    Answer yes or no.

    Are you accusing me of encouraging, or of having encouraged, paedophiles in their sexual practices?

    Answer yes or no.

    Are you accusing of supporting, or of having supported, the practice of paedophilia?

    Answer yes or no.

    ReplyDelete
  9. "Are you accusing me of having supported the Paedophile Information Exchange?

    Answer yes or no.

    Are you accusing me of encouraging, or of having encouraged, paedophiles in their sexual practices?

    Answer yes or no.

    Are you accusing of supporting, or of having supported, the practice of paedophilia?

    Answer yes or no."

    I am not ready to give such answers yet.

    It seems you do not have the documentary evidence to show that you actively opposed the pinko/liberal Left in its endorsement of the PIE.

    I shall consider everything and get back to you.

    Best wishes,

    GENE

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Bollocks.

      There is nothing to consider.

      You made an implied accusation and it is up to you to substantiate it.

      You can’t.

      And, as you can’t then, were you an honest man, you would withdraw it; and were you a decent man you would apologise for making it.

      But as you are a nasty- minded liar, you won’t.

      You daren’t answer “yes” because you are a gutless coward.

      You can’t answer “no” because you are a self-important gobshite unable to admit that you can be wrong about anything.

      I have my answer, Gene, as I knew I would - the prevarication of a dirty minded dimwit cornered by his own grubby stupidity, so stuff your inept sleaze up your arse.

      Delete
  10. Okay then. Without the documentary evidence lets have your answer as to whether you actively opposed the pinko/liberal Left in its endorsement of the PIE.

    The ball is in your court Detters.


    GENE

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Fair enough question Detterling. Did you or did you not opposed the pinko/liberal Left's support of the PIE?

      Sugarboy Nando

      Delete
    2. Detterling let me ask this as well: Did you or did you not oppose the pinko/liberal Left's support of the PIE?

      Sebastian D'Orsai

      Delete
    3. "Okay then. Without the documentary evidence lets have your answer as to whether you actively opposed the pinko/liberal Left in its endorsement of the PIE. The ball is in your court Detters. GENE"

      No, Gene, the ball is not in my court: you accused me of supporting the Paedophile Information Exchange and have refused either evidence, to confirm or withdraw that accusation so you can piss off.

      No, Gene, you are not going to wear me down.

      The liberal-left did not endorse the Paedophile Information Exchange any more than did Sir Leon Brittan, then Conservative Home Secretary, who in 2015 refused to back a bill to outlaw the Paedophile Information Exchange.

      That apart, I do not answer for my beliefs and actions to vicious, pig-ignorant scum like you, or to the pathetic array of sock puppets you assemble to maintain your delusion that anyone actually reads this crap.

      You made an implied accusation and it is up to you to substantiate it.

      You can’t.

      And, as you can’t then, were you an honest man, you would withdraw it; and were you a decent man you would apologise for making it.

      But as you are nasty- minded scum, you won’t.

      You daren’t answer “yes” because you are a gutless coward.

      You can’t answer “no” because you are a self-important gobshite unable to admit that you can be wrong about anything.

      I have my answer, Gene, as I knew I would - the prevarication of a dirty minded dimwit cornered by his own grubby stupidity, so stuff your inept sleaze up your arse.

      Delete
  11. "The liberal-left did not endorse the Paedophile Information Exchange"

    Oh! yes it did! Have you not read these articles?

    Methinks you are sliding into very difficult water Detterling. Did you or did you not condemn the pinko/liberal Left for endorsing the PIE?

    GENE

    ReplyDelete
  12. The liberal left did not endorse the Paedophile Information Exchange, and you cannot prove that they did. The article above demonstrates that Harriet Harman, her husband Jack Dromey and Patricia Hewitt, all members of the Labour Party were also functionaries of the National Council for Civil Liberties at a time when the Paedophile Information Exchange was affiliated to it. That is the only connection demonstrated by the article, which does concede that Mr Dromey campaigned against the Paedophile Information Exchange and advocated its removal from membership of the NCCL.

    "Accordingly, whilst reaffirming the NCCL policy on the age of consent and the rights of children; particularly the need to protect those of prepubertal age, this AGM condemns the physical and other attacks on those who have discussed or attempted to discuss paedophilia, and reaffirms the NCCL's condemnation of harassment and unlawful attacks on such persons."

    This is not an endorsement of the Paedophile Information Exchange, nor does it prove a link between the liberal left and the PIE. As usual, Gene, you are lying and, more ineptly than usual, trying to make bricks without straw.

    "Methinks you are sliding into very difficult water Detterling."

    Nonsense.

    "Did you or did you not condemn the pinko/liberal Left for endorsing the PIE?"

    No, Gene, the ball is not in my court: you accused me of supporting the Paedophile Information Exchange and have refused either to evidence, to confirm or withdraw that accusation so you can piss off.

    You are not going to wear me down.

    The liberal-left did not endorse the Paedophile Information Exchange any more than did Sir Leon Brittan, then Conservative Home Secretary, who in 2015 refused to back a bill to outlaw the Paedophile Information Exchange.

    That apart, I do not answer for my beliefs and actions to vicious, pig-ignorant scum like you, or to the pathetic array of sock puppets you assemble to maintain your delusion that anyone actually reads this crap.

    You made an implied accusation and it is up to you to substantiate it.

    You can’t.

    And, as you can’t then, were you an honest man, you would withdraw it; and were you a decent man you would apologise for making it.

    But as you are nasty- minded scum, you won’t.

    You daren’t answer “yes” because you are a gutless coward.

    You can’t answer “no” because you are a self-important gobshite unable to admit that you can be wrong about anything.

    I have my answer, Gene, as I knew I would - the prevarication of a dirty minded dimwit cornered by his own grubby stupidity, so stuff your inept

    ReplyDelete
  13. sleaze up your arse.

    ReplyDelete
  14. ""Did you or did you not condemn the pinko/liberal Left for endorsing the PIE?"

    You are not going to wear me down.

    The liberal-left did not endorse the Paedophile Information Exchange any more than did Sir Leon Brittan, then Conservative Home Secretary, who in 2015 refused to back a bill to outlaw the Paedophile Information Exchange.

    That apart, I do not answer for my beliefs and actions to vicious, pig-ignorant scum like you, or to the pathetic array of sock puppets you assemble to maintain your delusion that anyone actually reads this crap.

    You made an implied accusation and it is up to you to substantiate it.

    You can’t.

    And, as you can’t then, were you an honest man, you would withdraw it; and were you a decent man you would apologise for making it.

    But as you are nasty- minded scum, you won’t.

    You daren’t answer “yes” because you are a gutless coward.

    You can’t answer “no” because you are a self-important gobshite unable to admit that you can be wrong about anything.

    I have my answer, Gene, as I knew I would - the prevarication of a dirty minded dimwit cornered by his own grubby stupidity, so stuff your inept sleaze up your arse.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Well that's it. We now have everything we need to know. Readers can see quite clearly that you are reduced to saying black is white - something you always do when you are outgunned.

    Of course the pinko/liberal Left supported the PIE. THIS EVIL ORGANISATION. The pinko/lliberal National Council for Civil Liberties at its annual meeting in 1978 passed a motion in support of PIE's rights. The PIE was affiliated to the NCCL for almost ten years.

    Detterling you cannot bluff and bluster you way out of this one. Your failure to state whether you actively opposed the pink/liberal Left's support for the PIE speaks volumes.

    No more questions for this witness M'Lud.


    GENE

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. ""Did you or did you not condemn the pinko/liberal Left for endorsing the PIE?"

      You are not going to wear me down.

      The liberal-left did not endorse the Paedophile Information Exchange any more than did Sir Leon Brittan, then Conservative Home Secretary, who in 2015 refused to back a bill to outlaw the Paedophile Information Exchange.

      That apart, I do not answer for my beliefs and actions to vicious, pig-ignorant scum like you, or to the pathetic array of sock puppets you assemble to maintain your delusion that anyone actually reads this crap.

      You made an implied accusation and it is up to you to substantiate it.

      You can’t.

      And, as you can’t then, were you an honest man, you would withdraw it; and were you a decent man you would apologise for making it.

      But as you are nasty- minded scum, you won’t.

      You daren’t answer “yes” because you are a gutless coward.

      You can’t answer “no” because you are a self-important gobshite unable to admit that you can be wrong about anything.

      I have my answer, Gene, as I knew I would - the prevarication of a dirty minded dimwit cornered by his own grubby stupidity, so stuff your inept sleaze up your arse.

      Delete
  16. "Of course the pinko/liberal Left supported the PIE.

    Not so. The Paedophile Information Exchange was affiliated to the National Council for Civil Liberties for ten years. The NCCL is not a political organisation, and has no ties with any political party, left, right or centre.

    To deduce from that, and the fact that three people who were members of the Labour Party were also members of the NCCL that "the pinko-liberal left endorsed the Paedophile Information Exchange" is distortion amounting the cheapest of smear tactics. You might as well claim that Sir Leon Brittan, who refused to back a bill which would have outlawed the PIE in 2015 on the grounds that it was badly drafted, also supported paedophilia. He didn't: he simply had respect for the law, and a horror of bad drafting.

    "The pinko/liberal National Council for Civil Liberties at its annual meeting in 1978 passed a motion in support of PIE's rights."

    Not so. The motion passed said this in part:

    "This AGM condemns the physical and other attacks on those who have discussed or attempted to discuss paedophilia, and reaffirms the NCCL's condemnation of harassment and unlawful attacks on such persons."

    There is no mention at all of the Paedophile Information Exchange in this motion and indeed the motion's preamble re-affirmed the NCCL's condemnation of those seeking to lower or abolish the age of consent.

    "Accordingly, whilst reaffirming the NCCL policy on the age of consent and the rights of children; particularly the need to protect those of prepubertal age..."

    "The PIE was affiliated to the NCCL for almost ten years."

    And was thrown out when the true nature of its aims were understood.

    "Detterling you cannot bluff and bluster you way out of this one."

    I am neither bluffing nor blustering, I am simply using your own post to illustrate that your claim that "Of course the pinko/liberal Left supported the PIE" is untrue.

    "Your failure to state whether you actively opposed the pink/liberal Left's support for the PIE speaks volumes."

    It does nothing of the sort: I have no need to account for my beliefs or actions to you or anyone else. You made an accusation that I supported the Paedophile Information Exchange and hence supported paedophilia and paedophiles. It was up to you to substantiate that accusation if you can. So I asked you three simple closed questions:

    "Are you accusing me of having supported the Paedophile Information Exchange?" Answer yes or no.
    "Are you accusing me of encouraging, or of having encouraged, paedophiles in their sexual practices?" Answer yes or no.
    "Are you accusing of supporting, or of having supported, the practice of paedophilia?" Answer yes or no."

    You can't answer those simple questions and were you an honest man, you would withdraw these ridiculous accusations; and were you a decent man you would apologise for making it.

    But as you are nasty- minded scum, you won’t do either. You daren’t answer “yes” because you are a gutless coward. You can’t answer “no” because you are a self-important gobshite unable to admit that you can be wrong about anything. I have my answer, Gene, as I knew I would - the prevarication of a dirty minded dimwit cornered by his own grubby stupidity, so stuff your inept sleaze up your arse. And of course we all know why you are flailing about trying to pin these ridiculous accusations on me - it is to try to live down the fact of your complete failure to refute this FACT: Had Ratzinger unfrocked Stephen Kiesle in 1985, the abuse of children at St Joseph's would not have continued for a further three years. That is a FACT, no matter how often you try to deny it.

    Make no mistake Gene: I will go on refuting your fatuous accusations as long as you go on making them, as well as reminding you of your complete failure to exonerate Ratzinger from the condemnation he so richly deserves.

    ReplyDelete
  17. "The group inveigled itself so successfully into the NCCL that, as reported in the May 1978 edition of its magazine MagPIE, the council's annual meeting passed a motion in support of PIE's rights. Motion 39 stated: "This AGM reaffirms the right of free discussion and freedom to hold meetings for all organisations and individuals doing so within the law. Accordingly, whilst reaffirming the NCCL policy on the age of consent and the rights of children; particularly the need to protect those of prepubertal age, this AGM condemns the physical and other attacks on those who have discussed or attempted to discuss paedophilia, and reaffirms the NCCL's condemnation of harassment and unlawful attacks on such persons."

    That motion was passed two years after Harman has claimed that the group no longer wielded influence in the NCCL. "

    AND THAT'S NOT SUPPORT OF THE PIE !!!!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Where is the Paedophile Information Exchange mentioned in that motion?

      It isn’t.

      Where is support for the aims of the Paedophile Information Exchange explicitly affirmed in that motion?

      It isn’t.

      Further, your claim that the liberal left supported the Paedophile Information Exchange can only be validated if you can provide evidence of the political affiliations of all NCCL members and thereby prove that the liberal left was in a majority of the membership.

      You can’t.

      Similarly, only if you provide details of the voting in that motion such that you can prove that those who voted for it were of the liberal left persuasion can your contention that the liberal left supported the Paedophile Information Exchange hold good.

      You can’t.

      Four simple proofs, Gene. Go ahead and supply them.

      Delete
  18. The PIE was affiliated to the NCCL for almost ten years.

    Detterling you cannot bluff and bluster you way out of this one. Your failure to state whether you actively opposed the pink/liberal Left's support for the PIE speaks volumes.

    ReplyDelete
  19. No bluff, no bluster, Gene. Simply reasoned refutation of your lazy smears, and simple closed questions that you continue to refuse to answer.

    Because you can’t or daren’t or both.

    And do tell us:

    Of what does my refusal to declare my views on the Paedophile Information Exchange speak?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Of what does my refusal to declare my views on the Paedophile Information Exchange speak?"

      DO I HAVE TO SPELL IT OUT????

      GENE

      Delete
    2. Yes, you do.

      Delete
    3. No bluff, no bluster, Gene. Simply reasoned refutation of your lazy smears, and simple closed questions that you continue to refuse to answer.

      Because you can’t or daren’t or both.

      And do tell us:

      Of what does my refusal to declare my views on the Paedophile Information Exchange speak?

      Delete


  20. Peter Tatchell complains about the scandal of priests abusing mainly teenage boys, but he himself has argued for the elimination of ages of consent, he sees nothing wrong with adult/child sexual encounters and said in a paedophile campaigning book that it is court appearances and societal pressures that cause a victim to have anxiety over child sexual abuse, rather than the abuse itself.

    Catholic writer Damian Thompson provides compelling evidence that Peter Tatchell cannot even be trusted to report accurately on his subject, and that is even before he begins to mention the homosexual abuse scandal.

    But in the campaigning book ‘Betrayal of Youth’, edited by the Vice-Chairman of the notorious Paedophile Information Exchange, and published in 1986, Tatchell wrote that children need:

    ‘protection against self-destroying feelings of guilt and anxiety which are so often stirred up by sexual encounters outside the ages of consent precisely because they are illicit and regarded as shameful. It is usually this social shame, more than the sexual act itself, which harms young people. The psychological scars of court cases and societal disapproval often remain long after the actual sexual encounter is forgotten.’ (BOY p118)

    The editor of ‘Betrayal of Youth’ wrote helpfully: ‘Readers will by now be aware that all the contributors to this study agree that we should be working towards the day when when children’s rights are recognized and accepted. … The mere fact of an adult having consensual sex with a child should not of itself be construed as an abuse.’ (Middleton W in ‘Betrayal of Youth’ page 179)

    PETER THATCHELL WAS THE LABOUR PARTY CANDIDATE FOR BERMONDSEY AT THE 1983 GENERAL ELECTION.

    Detterling these were your pinko/liberal fellow-travellers: brown rice, lentils, low fat yogurt and all.

    GENE

    ReplyDelete
  21. "...But it is impossible to keep silent in the face of Peter Tatchell’s hypocrisy. He is the man leading the charge against the Catholic Church for the sexual abuse perpetrated by a minority of its priests. And yet he sees nothing wrong in adults and children having sex together as such. He is on record speaking with no sense of criticism of 9-year-olds having sex with adults. And even where there is abuse, he blames the stigma imposed by society and the court system for the trauma victims suffer rather than the sexual activity itself."

    Like to defend Tatchell Detters? No, I thought not.

    Gene

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Why would I want to defend Tatchell, Gene?

      Is it because I support paedophilia?

      Delete